tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post5964146932805913338..comments2023-12-27T22:27:56.989-08:00Comments on A Girl and Her Gun: Summeragirlandhergunhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-18238216737112779742012-06-17T15:38:29.379-07:002012-06-17T15:38:29.379-07:00Poniegirl here - Totally agree with Eric. As a TX ...Poniegirl here - Totally agree with Eric. As a TX resident we are fortunate not to have a true brandishing statute. However if you do pull your weapon but don't fire you could be charged with aggrivated assault. As not firing could indicate that you didn't truly feel in danger of your life. <br /><br />My bigger concern as far as "printing" goes is that I often am out with people who don't share my views on gun related issues or I am not sure of their views. I frequently am getting kids in and out of cars which in its self is awkward much less while trying to conceal a weapon ( this challenge though is for another post). The retired DPS personell who gave us our CHL testing stressed that anyone who did see your weapon could if, they so desired, claim they felt threatened. This is not likely in my area of the state but in some areas (Austin for example) it might not be that impossible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-9488676159307767372012-06-17T14:40:27.476-07:002012-06-17T14:40:27.476-07:00Thanks for feeling comfortable to share your thoug...Thanks for feeling comfortable to share your thoughts. Nice to be able to have these discusiions!agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-91311383028371678072012-06-17T14:35:35.955-07:002012-06-17T14:35:35.955-07:00As always, great information. That explains a lot...As always, great information. That explains a lot about the confusion between folks that live and carry in TX. Truly appreciate it! Thank you!agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-59074476535762125782012-06-16T03:46:34.828-07:002012-06-16T03:46:34.828-07:00Thanks to everyone that weighed in on this topic. ...Thanks to everyone that weighed in on this topic. I have to agree w/ many of the comments and much of what Eric says above.<br />Taken as a whole, I think this woman did a good job and came out safe. However, had things went just a little differently and she needed to defend her actions in court, I believe it would have been a tough sell.<br />If she was concerned for her safety, why didn't she call the police?<br />If her car was a place of safety, why did she need to get the gun out?<br />Why didn't she immediately start the vehicle and drive away?<br /><br />These are just some of the questions a good lawyer for the BG might use to put some doubt into the jury's mind. From a legal standpoint and playing devil's advocate, I would be concerned. We have all read the situation that Zimmerman has now found himself in and I beleive it is prudent to examine scenarios like these from all angles. Personally, I would want to go to court with more than 1. he looked like a dirtbag 2. I told him to stay back and 3. he pulled on the door handle after I yelled "I'll F*** you up!"<br />I think you would get tore apart by a good lawyer.<br />Thanks to everyone for a pleasant discussion and AGirl for posting the story to begin with.Tactiacl Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-24990687416425727582012-06-15T12:16:14.313-07:002012-06-15T12:16:14.313-07:00Eric in Texas
Part the Second:
However, back to ...Eric in Texas<br /><br />Part the Second:<br /><br />However, back to brandishing and printing:<br /><br />Legally, there is no such thing as "brandishing" in Texas. In common usage it might mean waving a gun around, but there is no crime of "brandishing."<br /><br />There also is no crime of "printing."<br /><br />The actual statutes requiring concealed handguns to be concealed are these:<br /><br />Government Code, SubChapter H, Sec. 411.171. DEFINITIONS. (3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.<br /><br />Penal Code Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.<br /><br />That's it. To be in violation of the law, you have to INTENTIONALLY not conceal your handgun. People get wound up about "printing" due to the definition of a concealed handgun, i.e. "not openly discernible," but the actual crime is in intentionally failing to conceal. And AFAIK, no one who ever drew in legitimate self-defense was ever charged with intentionally failing to conceal. :)<br /><br />That is not to say you won't find a knot-headed cop who will harass you if your shirt pulls up by accident -- there is at least one documented case of this -- but it is certainly the rare exception. <br /><br />My favorite anecdote, posted on the TexasCHLforum.com, was about the gentleman and his very young son who were in line behind a police officer. The son, fascinated with all the cop gear, asked lots of questions, including of course about the officer's gun. Whereupon son, without warning, yanked up his dad's shirt and told the officer, "My dad has one too!"<br /><br />The cop's response was to burst out laughing. :)<br /><br />As to the young lady who deterred the parking lot accoster -- I think she was well within her legal, moral, and tactical rights. Mr. Accoster disobeyed a command to stay away and tried to get into her car. Neither of these are the actions of a "good guy," and unless he was an unusually decrepit specimen of the male species, there was an automatic disparity of force, plus she was in her car. Good on her.<br /><br />Many trumpet the axiom that you should not draw your gun unless there is justification to use it, and I think this is wise as far as it goes, but it does not follow that having drawn it, you MUST use it. <br /><br />The goal is to go home safe -- safe from the bad guys, and safe from the judicial and medical systems. If you draw your piece and your would-be mugger suddenly remembers an important appointment across town...hey, that's a WIN. No messy police intestigations, etc etc.<br /><br />Caveat -- I am not a lawyer and all that. But these are things I have thought through and taken the time to research a bit. Hope it is of use to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-56792040500153751912012-06-15T12:15:13.650-07:002012-06-15T12:15:13.650-07:00Eric (from Texas) here again.
Looks like I have t...Eric (from Texas) here again.<br /><br />Looks like I have to break this into two or more posts.<br /><br />Part the First:<br /><br /><br />"...My friend lives in TX and she worries a ton about printing. As she has explained it to me, if she is just minding her business grocery shopping and her gun prints or pops out from under her shirt, it is a brandishing charge..."<br /><br />It seems many of my fellow Texas CHL holders are inordinately obsessed over the subjects of "printing" and "brandishing." Given comments on various forums, there are apparently CHL instructors who encourage or are the source of such concerns. Some to the degree that they feel if they even murmur that the might be armed, they have committed a legally prosecutable sin of ...something.<br /><br />I think this is a product of guns having been demonized for so many years, all the controversy over concealed carry when it first started sweeping the nation, or something like that. Texas, despite its reputation/demonization by others as cowboy-hang-em-high state, has actually had fairly oppressive weapons laws for 150 years or more, that only started to be rolled back in the 90s when one political party began to replace the other as the dominant political force. (And no, those laws were not the result of yankee carpet baggers -- this was a self-inflicted wound).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-38266366133492348222012-06-15T11:56:28.809-07:002012-06-15T11:56:28.809-07:00Ok, I am getting conflicting info on the brandishi...Ok, I am getting conflicting info on the brandishing issue. One person says nope, no such law, and another tells me, yep, so I will stick with Va...I know the laws in my state:)agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-85435367707845037692012-06-15T09:42:37.906-07:002012-06-15T09:42:37.906-07:00When reading the article it was a lot more than ju...When reading the article it was a lot more than just seeing a "scarey" looking person. When he ran toward her and then tried to open the car door he was the agressor and she did the right thing. Glad she could run faster and get the locked door between them, letting him know she was armed at that time was the right step as I don't feel he was just going to go away.Granny Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12390732179054566600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-15142657333074530842012-06-15T07:19:34.577-07:002012-06-15T07:19:34.577-07:00Is that brandishing or failing to conceal a weapon...Is that brandishing or failing to conceal a weapon? I'm not saying that there are states that conflate the two, but those are two very separate things.Broken Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01562569871940946226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-45454175765669422432012-06-15T06:04:42.705-07:002012-06-15T06:04:42.705-07:00Andy, not true. My friend lives in TX and she wor...Andy, not true. My friend lives in TX and she worries a ton about printing. As she has explained it to me, if she is just minding her business grocery shopping and her gun prints or pops out from under her shirt, it is a brandishing charge. <br /><br />I know I have readers from Texas...can anyone clarify, correct me, add anything useful???agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-5543772099507315862012-06-15T05:58:21.993-07:002012-06-15T05:58:21.993-07:0018.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firear...18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.<br /><br />A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance,whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-79773924802480163452012-06-15T05:55:00.188-07:002012-06-15T05:55:00.188-07:00There is a distinction in VA. brandishing is an u...There is a distinction in VA. brandishing is an unlawful act, but drawing, putting hand on etc, for self defense is not...<br /><br />Trying to copy something, but it's not letting me. Gonna keep trying.agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-33434219734887852912012-06-15T05:54:07.998-07:002012-06-15T05:54:07.998-07:00To be considered brandishing, I would imagine the ...To be considered brandishing, I would imagine the printing would have to be intentional, and without some other act would be hard to prove in court.<br /><br />Put hey... glad I live in the Old Dominion.Broken Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01562569871940946226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-34820900587824766972012-06-15T05:47:07.569-07:002012-06-15T05:47:07.569-07:00I understand that is the law here, but not in ever...I understand that is the law here, but not in every state. In some states simply printing through your cover garment can be considered brandishing which is why I listed out the scenarios where such and such might be acceptable.agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-62808872302328042522012-06-15T05:44:01.653-07:002012-06-15T05:44:01.653-07:00Brandishing is considered the act of suggesting yo...Brandishing is considered the act of suggesting you will use a firearm. Whether you wave it around in somebody's face, draw to the ready, simply put your had on the gun while in the holster or just say you have a gun and will use it, that is all considered brandishing.Broken Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01562569871940946226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-64025541032093553522012-06-15T05:40:42.748-07:002012-06-15T05:40:42.748-07:00The man acted aggressively toward her, including c...The man acted aggressively toward her, including closing distance to intercept her at a fast pace and attempting to get into her car. This wasn't just a "she was scared because he looks scary" situation. He acted aggressively. In fact, in many states his attempt to gain access to the car while she was in it is covered under Castle Doctrine and she would have been well within her rights to plug 'em with a few slugs to prevent it.Broken Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01562569871940946226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-77283289876017061392012-06-15T04:31:11.837-07:002012-06-15T04:31:11.837-07:00Laser sights for pistols, that is what I got from...Laser sights for pistols, that is what I got from the story also. I prefer her ending to mine, but I think TT, has a good point. In an effort to show her support some people, including myself, might have been a little to flippant.agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-81525382200436332422012-06-15T04:22:33.891-07:002012-06-15T04:22:33.891-07:00I agree completely agree that one should just whip...I agree completely agree that one should just whip out there gun everytime a situation is a little scary and I do agree that if a person draws their gun they should be prepared to use it, but I can think of a times when brandishing or posturing and even drawing without firing would ba acceptable. It is impossible to list every right way, but I have taken several advanced courses where we have practiced different scenarios that fit drawing, but not firing. <br /><br />I think your comments are good though. Look at a situation and discussing it is very helpful for us all to become better, more prepared gun owners. I really appreciate your thoughts!agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-34663775084092583132012-06-15T04:21:01.303-07:002012-06-15T04:21:01.303-07:00I got the impression more from some things that we...I got the impression more from some things that were said in the comments than from the story.Tactical Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-34028401008362713532012-06-15T04:00:55.746-07:002012-06-15T04:00:55.746-07:00The way I read the article it sounded like she was...The way I read the article it sounded like she was was concerned for her safety, he attempted to open her door. I think she stopped the situation from escalating and prepared herself if he took the situation to the next level. While reading the article, at no time did I feel like she pulled the gun out without the intent of using it. Thank you for sharing the story a GirlAndHerGun.laser sights for pistolshttp://www.lasersightsforhandguns.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-58050429982398368252012-06-15T03:44:11.090-07:002012-06-15T03:44:11.090-07:00I didn't think she was careless but IMO you sh...I didn't think she was careless but IMO you should never use your gun to try and deter someone from doing something. That isn't what it is for.<br />If you draw your weapon it is with the intention of using it. If you don't have a solid justification for using it then you set yourself up for a bad situation. <br />Of course I'm Monday Morning Quarterbacking. I wasn't there and an argument could be made that she is female and he is male and so a threat but my point is that flasing your gun w/o cause can lead to you being charged w/ a crime.<br />I just don't want people buying guns as an intimidator thinking they can just scare people off and never actualy have to use it!Tactical Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-61778118673043988632012-06-15T03:14:33.677-07:002012-06-15T03:14:33.677-07:00Hey, I will go back and read her story again, but ...Hey, I will go back and read her story again, but when I read it the first time I got that she asked the guy to stop he didn't, she got in her car told him to stop he didn't, so got her gun. She didn't shoot him, she told him to go away and then she called her boss and the police. Not being there, on the surface is appears good to me. <br /><br />My comment was having her wits about her to say stop and when he didn't to get her gun, but not to shoot him. I might not have drawn my gun and might have some suggestions, but I didn't see anything in her post that made me think she was careless.agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-20731025699852871802012-06-15T01:44:15.233-07:002012-06-15T01:44:15.233-07:00AGirl, I followed the link to that woman's sto...AGirl, I followed the link to that woman's story and read your comments. I hope that you are not encouraging people to flash guns at someone b/c they are scared!? That surely doesn't sound like your usual sage advice.<br />Showing your gun to someone to try to deter them can get you into real hot water! Fear is not sufficient reason to pull a gun on someone and telling the judge "well he looked like a crackhead" is not solid defense.<br />While I'm gald she is okay and everything turned out well, I think she handled that situation poorly.Tactical Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-9858015806025786462012-06-14T20:09:59.316-07:002012-06-14T20:09:59.316-07:00We know summer-busy in our home... hope you keep o...We know summer-busy in our home... hope you keep on the mend...<br /><br />Dann in OhioGod, Gals, Guns, Grubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18289354729286002247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1577008135895208329.post-17576211822502792602012-06-14T16:46:41.873-07:002012-06-14T16:46:41.873-07:00In general meds, caffeine etc do not effect me too...In general meds, caffeine etc do not effect me too much. Tylenol is not something I would have thought to take, but somehow the combo of Motrin and Tylenol has helped tremendously.agirlandhergunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369419666474343639noreply@blogger.com